Well like i said if its done through their client, which I would presume it would be. It will probably follow their faq. Which implies you need to have the client running.

How many computers can I install my games on?
We do not limit the number of computers you can install your games on, we do however limit concurrent usage of those games. When you buy a game from us we grant a license to run only one copy at a given time. If you log into another Beamdog Client, we log you out of the previous session.

I also heard something about an announcement next week where they'll tell us more about "how to acquire the game". Which means maybe there will be a hard copy edition.

Honestly, I prefer a little DRM (if handled correctly) over limited downloads and/or installs. There's nothing more annoying than installing the game, then uninstalling it to make room for something else, and then trying to reinstall only to discover that the new download won't work because you've already reached the limit.

If the client is robust enough to not get disconnected - or to not disconnect your play if it does - and only uses the client for authentication, I'd say that's not really a problem. You're kind of screwed if you don't have an internet connection, but for a digital exclusive game, that's more or less the case already, isn't it? ;)

@->Ayeso,

Well, if they decide to apply those same rules to Baldur's Gate ED, then I'll just have to pirate it.

@->Aosaw,

Don't "prefer" one over the other. They are both unacceptable and should be discouraged. If they want me to buy this, then they better give me better service than if I pirate it.

Assuming that this follows the same rules as the rest of the games here, I am unable to play this game offline, simultaneously on multiple computers, and without an extra program running in the background to "keep me in check". In fact, I won't even own a copy of the game I'll own a license to PLAY the game. Now if I pirate it, I'll be able to do ALL of those things and with a much faster download speed (providing I use a private tracker with a decent community).

Protoman

arrrrr matey... you suck

^^ Major Buzz-Kill

EDIT: Ninja'd!

Seriously, that's one of the strangest reactions, which nevertheless I see all the time: "You're selling it as X, so I'm just going to steal it from you instead."

That's like saying, "Pfft - you only sell your cars with a credit check? Looks I'm just gonna have to steal one, on principle."

The only difference is that the car dealership can fight back and send you to jail. The software developer can't fight back. So really what you're doing is punching a kid in the stomach because you don't like his t-shirt.

May I ask that you take out some of the cheesy/meta-game/abusive strategies that persisted in the old engine, things like:

1. Hiding behind fog of war (I remember it working on Fiirkrag for example, in TOB latest patch).
2. Exiting and ree-entering a location to wear down an enemy parties' spells mid-casting (was very effective for doing the top of Iron Throne building, for example).

Also perhaps exp scaling for puzzles would be a good idea, depending on your level, so you can't overlevel by solving out-of-depth puzzles early on. That was particularly true of the TOSC and Watcher's Keep stuff.

I'm guessing you've already given thought to such things. Also if you made a mode that implemented rationed saves that would be awesome. I tend to spoil my own fun by save-scumming battles until the die rolls in my favour. I'll understand if there isn't a popular demand for such a feature though. A lot of D&D stuff doesn't fit unless you're playing a self-impose challenge game--one of your party members dies? Just reload. Resurrection would be more immersive, but you'd have to force me to use it. :P

Well, if they decide to apply those same rules to Baldur's Gate ED, then I'll just have to pirate it.

I'm sure the government will disband the police-force the day people threaten to burgle their neighbours if they don't do so... nope, it will achieve the opposite. If you care about DRM, then do your bit and stop pirating. The idea of a thief standing for a principle is a bit ironic, don't you think?

Aosaw

You're right of course, if you are a real fan (and everyone here must be if they know what BG is) stealing this game is not an option if you dont like the drm. i hate people who say they are going to pirate the game because they dont like something about it, i have no respect for those people.

Aosaw,

I am sorry that you see what I am doing in that light. I'll play along with your example. If I buy a car then I own it and I can do pretty much whatever I want with it after I'm finished paying it off. Do they check to make sure it is you each time you start the car? Do they have a representative sitting in the car with you to make sure that nobody else is using it? Do they file a lawsuit against you if you let somebody else use your car?

Also, the pirating = stealing logic is very flawed. If I steal something, then that causes them to LOSE money. Do they lose money if I pirate it? Can they go in debt from people pirating their games? They did not lose anything, they just prevented a potential sale from occurring. They cannot lose what they do not yet have.

Stealing would be if I walked in to best buy and took a physical copy without paying.

It's mainly just the wrong tactic to get things done. If you don't like the way a product is being distributed, and it's enough to make you not want to support the company distributing it, the solution is to not buy the product.

It's not to *steal* the product. As if to say, "I hate you! But I like your game. But I hate you! So you can go out of business for all I care - but not before I get a chance to play this totally awesome game you made. But I'm not paying for it. No, because that would show you that I support you. Which I don't. Because I hate you!"

See the disconnect? ;)

Typical fallacy of someone defending piracy is applying the rules of physical property to intellectual property.

Back 10000 years ago there was probably some person having an equivilent conversation struggling to explain physical property to his fellow cave-man.

Intellectual property is different from physical property, and is a relatively modern concept. The same rules do not apply to IP as PP, and examples comparing the two are improper.

Intellectual property means you own an abstraction and all instances of it. You own the arrangement of matter and the idea of it, not the matter itself.

If you walk into a bookstore, and leave with a book without paying, are you just stealing ink and paper? Or is it more than that--the words--and their meaning, that you are stealing? Such is the difference between intellectual and physical property.

Copyright means the person owns every instance of the arrangement of matter, until and unless they dispose of it to somebody. So whether you steal that book from the bookstore, or photocopy it, or painstakingly write it down with ink and paper that you bought yourself, you're still stealing the IP.

I'll let you figure out the rest.

The resurrection mechanic, Caruga, is definately a weakness of the BG game. It's mainly because it's so annoying to have handle. There isn't really a problem going to a temple and paying for the resurrect, it's having to make space for all of the equipment and then re-equipping again.

I don't like the idea of experience scaling, it can lead to very skewed gameplay, look no further than Icewindale 2, where you stop getting experience in battles becuase your level is higher than the enemies. It was infuriaitng fighting a battle that required all of your tactical skill and then to get nothing at the end of it.

I do agree that Watcher's Keep needs to be modified. In particular I dont think it should be avaiable at the start of BG2, it's too easy to get in early, clear some of the first level and get +6 items in the process, which naturally imbalances the game. The keep should be available from the start of ToB and from a midpoint in BG2. As for Tales of the Sword Coast, I think the new content was sufficiently difficult in that, that it wasn't particularly easy to gain undue advantage from it early.

As for exploits, I agree. I seem to remember that sometimes enemies chased you if you left the screen, although that may have only been with the Sword Coast strategies mod. The fact enemies do not open doors though is definately something that needs to be improved.

Finally on the topic of minor inconveniences, one arose in particular with bows and shields. It was possible to equip a bow, but not a shield at the same time, which is fine. But more problematically, it wasn't even possible to have it in the slot. However you could pause, take down the bow, then put the shield up with a weapon, meaning you could do in several stages what you couldn't do in one. Let the shield be put in the slot, but only used when using a one handed weapon.

Aosaw,

I'm not saying I hate them. I'm not saying that I don't support them either. I'm saying that I do not support that business practice.

I'm just not going to pay for the "privilege" of playing the game, I want to pay FOR the game.

And again, if I buy a book then I own that copy of the book. They don't check on my every time I try to read it, and they don't disable my access to it if I lend it to a friend.

I know I'm not a moderator and my word means nothing, but is there any chance we could have the DRM discussion in a seperate thread? It's souring good BG discussion.

HeroicSpur

I agree, if someone wants to make a thread about the DRM, I'll argue with them some more there. I will not talk about it any more in this thread.

I don't like the idea of experience scaling, it can lead to very skewed gameplay, look no further than Icewindale 2, where you stop getting experience in battles becuase your level is higher than the enemies. It was infuriaitng fighting a battle that required all of your tactical skill and then to get nothing at the end of it.

All depends on the implementation in the end.

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In TOSC, you could take a new character up to level 4 or 5 fairly easily by solving the puzzle at the top of Durlag's tower, using easily-obtained invisibility potions to get past the doomguards (if that is their name, I forget). It was 10k or more exp if I recall rightly--an appropriate reward for high levels but not for level 2. Maybe a percentage of level progress would be a better exp reward, or a mix of absolute and relative values...

And while I remember of it, get rid of Firebead Elvenhair spawning twice. I'd always kill the guy at the beginning to get to level 2 instantly. But he'd still reppear in Beregost. :)

Another thing: arrows in BG1 were _broken_ if you were a fighter. Grand mastery in bows actually might have been bugging... I was getting up to 18 damage or so with regular unenchanted bow and arrow. I believe melee is nerfed beyond D&D rules in both BG1 and 2 (correct me if I'm wrong), forcing outright misses a good percentage of the time (possibly disabled when whirlwind attack is used), but this nerf doesn't apply to missiles. Absolutely nothing was a challenge to me in BG1 after I discovered how good bows could be. They'd virtually never miss.

Maybe the problem isn't the game spawning him twice, but rather the fact that you like killing NPCs for XP. ;)

I'm surprised that you can even kill Firebead Elvenhair. He always struck me as being such a stodgy old fogey that I wouldn't ever hurt him. Or, rather, he seems to be a high-level wizard and I wouldn't want to risk him blowing my face off. :)

(last off-topic comment: I created a DRM-related thread; I don't expect it to go anywhere, but in the event that there is more to be said, it should go there.)

I'm surprised that you can even kill Firebead Elvenhair. He always struck me as being such a stodgy old fogey that I wouldn't ever hurt him. Or, rather, he seems to be a high-level wizard and I wouldn't want to risk him blowing my face off. :)

I don't know how many ways to kill him there are. I'd use darts, since they had the highest chance of interrupting his casting. Would require a few reloads, fewer if I had two points in dart skill.

But yes, I think he's not meant to be killed, so the devs just didn't think of the continuity issue.

(last off-topic comment: I created a DRM-related thread; I don't expect it to go anywhere, but in the event that there is more to be said, it should go there.)

Well I've said my bit. :)

Thanks Trent+Team!

Some good news :) - Though i am very eager to see some details on what the enhancements will be and if they will include the expansions...just like everyone else heh

Maybe if you're loading and saving to get xp from killing npc's early, it wont make too much difference if they add scaling, you'll still find ways to get the xp anyway?

I think loading saving/rushing to the tower is a result of not having enough content :) You've played the game enough your bound to discover things like that. But remember part of what made BG1 great (and the reason why BG2 isn't out-and-out better than it) is that it's free form. You can go and explore the wilderness, you're not railroaded like you are in modern games. Plus getting big XP rewards as a low level party is generally (and i accept that there are a few exploits Caruga) a reward for fighting beyond your means, I wouldn't want that artificially limited.

One problem that definately needs to be addressed however is experience generally. The rewards are very much out of kilter, there are some powerful enemies who yield relatively nothing, but easy ones that yield loads. Or doing an easy fetch and carry quest that yields 500xp while fighting some tough enemies will yield less. It's definately something that needs to be rebalanced or adjusted.

White Dragon, it's been confirmed that the expansions will be included, Trent has said ToTSC is coming with BGEE on his twitter.

Thought of a feature I'd like: zooming.

I liked the close-in appearance of BG1 with its 640x480 resolution, but valued the strategic and panoramic view of the higher resolutions as well. Ideally one could have the native resolution of their monitor, and then at the hit of a keybinding go from 1x scaling to 1.5x, 2x, 3x etc.

The save/reload abuse could be partially solved by a better inventory interface. When you have to have a special kind of scroll with you to win, you're much more likely to reload your way trough the fight than going back to Athkatla to buy it, unless storage is made easier.

I agree Kukaracha, there is definately some improvements that can be made. One thing is that there should be an automatic scroll and gem allocaiton in the inventory. It is a bit absurd that a few arrows, or a gem take the same amount of space as a suit of full plate.

On the other hand there is a certain satisfaction trudging back after a long period of exploration with inventories full to the brim with loot. Therefore I don't think inventory space should be unlimited, but perhaps scrolls, gems and ammo shouldn't take any.

Now I'm also wondering where development stage is at. If they're just getting started with it, a Summer 2012 release sounds very optimistic. If it's been in development a long while, then it's perhaps too late for us to be making suggestions! (But they've only just recently gotten in the clear regarding legality and rights of ownership?).

I don't mean to offend anyone, but I don't really understand why would you worry about game abuse and exploits when you could just avoid them. Someone care to explain?

I do think the inventory is good too, it adds to the challenge, and you know... "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". The only thing that I think would help a lot is making a couple scroll cases/gem bags available in BG.

Edit: And about the development, I'm pretty sure they didn't start just now, I would guess they are already 1-3 months in maybe more.

Thanks HeroicSpur! I should check twitter more often i guess heh

- Useable Journal e.g. Open/Completed Quests and/or sorted per Area and Chapter
These already exist in Baldur's Gate 2, and exist in Baldur's Gate via BGT or EasyTutu

Didn't really exist the last time I tried playing them with BGT... checking the Journal to see if Quests were still open or I already did them didn't do much but disappoint, midway through BG1 my Journal even broke completely and was like all white...

- Mousewheel support
For what purpose?

For scrolling? e.g. through items in a chest or whatnot... UI-related reasons and other, BG1 didn't have scrollwheel support...

- Less atrocious inventory management & better recognition and selling/buying of items
I love the inventory and shops in BG, there's always an issue with space but otherwise every screen is packed full of character, which is definately to be preferred over convenience. Having a side-by-side window shop like in NWN completely removes the immersion. All the menus, UI tabs and screens all seem like they're integrated into the game, I would hate to lose that.

I really, really don't... it's one of the most painful and timeconsuming things trying to replay the games, especially in Multiplayer, it can literally take dozens of minutes to sort through and sell off crap etc., a single "Sell off crap"-button could for instance improve that experience of dropping all the non-magic trash-loot on the vendor automatically, a lot of things are cumbersome (especially in BG1) and there HAVE been improvements in UI and usability in the last 15 years that don't have to be disregarded and might make the game more fun for a lot of people. I still remember that I kind of hated the inventory system even the first time I played it (including equipping crap rings, ammunition and amulets etc. to be able to carry more and the low amount of inventory slots that often forced to have to walk back into the city while in the middle of a dungeon) and the "Bag of Holding" was probably the best item in the entire trilogy for that reason alone. Talking about the Bag and similar containers that would be a great example of where "scrolling" is useful, or for that matter if you have more than 100 objects in there and you are looking for something maybe MORE than four items showing at once would be great and maybe being able to sell directly out of a container too xD

- Less "You must gather your party before venturing forth"
Speechless, how could you suggest such a thing? (although it does get pretty annoying if it's playing 5 times every 10 seconds).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93XFxKXdbqY
Just saying, if they're going to do an "Enhanced Edition" anyway and even add content and improve on things I hope they do it right and don't keep some of the most stupid mechanics in the game just because :P I hope they don't change much about the game itself and other systems but the UI was one of the most horrid things about my favourite games Trilogy ever.

My guess is that, since they're basically just rebuilding the same (and some additional) content, with more or less the same engine, they did most of the work prior to approval, just to build the engine; now that they've gotten the go-ahead, it won't be that complicated to add the content, because they'll have the framework already.

Personally, I'd guess that this project has been in the works for the past several years "on the sly", working in their spare time without getting paid for it, just to get things to the point where an enhanced edition would be possible.